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Salam SlaveofAllah

You said:
If Omar and Abu Bakr did all that abdullah has claimed then they are facing the severe consequences now. but whatever is true has no bearing on you or me so why waste you time fighting over it? leave them all to Allah and concentrate on your own salvation and your loved ones and then those around you, on making peace first between the believers then once our house is in order guide the rest of mankind to the truth.

Brother, first off I hope you know that Imam Ahmed a.s forbid us to use bad words and insults against anyone. When he was asked regarding that he a.s. said:

“As for insulting, it is not from our manners. And I ask Allah to bestow upon me and make me among those who forgive the ones who hurt them, and I seek refuge with Allah from being tough and wretched. And I have forbid the believing brothers and sisters from having bad manners, which hurt them firstly and hurt the Islam which Muhammad (sawas) came with secondly, since they are attributed to him (sawas). And I have asked them to have the morals and manners of the Qur’an. And a lot of them know how many times I have asked them to read some of the Surahs which reveal the Divine morals and manners, and to work by them. So mocking, insulting, calling names, attacking the honors of people, and every manner which Allah is not pleased with, are renounced and absolutely rejected by us, and we do not accept that any of the believing brothers and sisters have those manners"

However brother, we must declare ourselves innocent of Umar ibn Alkhattab, Abu Bakr, and their likes, the ones who oppressed and opposed Muhammad sawas and those who oppressed and opposed his Ahlul Bayt a.s. You're saying let's forget about what they did in the past and just worry about our salvation. But we believe that our salvation is in following every single command which came in Qur'an. And in Qur'an Allah swt put declaring oneself innocent of the enemies of Allah before believing in Allah! So Allah swt did not just say "believe in Allah", rather He places disbelieving in the Tyrant before believing in Allah. He swt said in Surat Al-Baqarah: {Certainly, right has become clearly distinct from wrong. Whoever disbelieves in the Taghut (Tyrant) and believes in Allah has firmly taken hold of a strong handle that never breaks} [Surat Al-Baqarah 2:256]. So He (swt) has put forth disbelieving in the Tyrant before believing in Allah swt. And disbelieving in the Tyrant is declaring oneself innocent from the enemies of Allah.

Thus, believing in Allah (swt) is never achieved except after one declares himself innocent from the enemies of Allah whom are the enemies of the Successors of Allah. To prove this further more, look at the end of Surat Al-Mujadilah ([Surah 58]) He (swt) emphasizes this meaning, for He swt says that which means: You would never find the ones who believe in Allah and in the Hereafter loving the ones who are stubborn against Allah and enemies with Allah and His Messenger, even if this stubborn person is the closest to them in kinship. He swt said: {You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with spirit from Him. And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him - those are the party of Allah. Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful} [Surat Al-Mujadilah 58:22]

Otherwise, how would a person be a Muslim (submitting to Allah) if he compliments and love the Tyrants? Or compliments and love one who is stubborn against Allah and His Messenger? Even if this stubborn person was from his family or tribe.

This is Prophet Yusuf (Joseph) (a.s) emphasizing this meaning and emphasizing that declaring oneself innocent of the enemies of Allah is put forth before believing in Allah {Indeed, I have left the religion of a people who do not believe in Allah , and they, in the Hereafter, are disbelievers * And I have followed the religion of my fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And it was not for us to associate anything with Allah. That is from the favor of Allah upon us and upon the people, but most of the people are not grateful} [Surat Yusuf 12:37-38]

As the verse said, we cannot love Allah and believe in Him yet still love those who oppose His Messenger {You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger}[Surat Al-Mujadilah 58:22]

So yes brother it is important to look in history and know who the ones who opposed the Messenger of Allah sawas were and to declare yourself innocent from them. That's what the Qur'an commands us anyway. And our salvation is in what the Qur'an commands us. As for insulting and calling names, it is not from our manners like Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. said.

InshaAllah will answer the rest of your questions/points in a bit.

Wassalamu alaikum waRahmtullah waBarakatuh.
Last edited by Norhan El Kirsh on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Norhan El Kirsh wrote:Slam SlaveofAllah

* First off something needs to be clarified. Abdullah and I would not want you to do this Mubahala because brother all the ones before you who did it were destroyed. And this in its own is a sign. Abdullah explained later on that the Mubahala you suggested should be with Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. and not him, and yes you are the one who presented this Mubahala thing because you are the one who repeatedly asked us to swear upon our children and chance of paradise. Specifically you said:
would you swear your life and your children's lives and your chance of paradise and your children's chance of paradise and you and your children will burn in hell forever if you are wrong...that all the hadiths of the ahulbayt have never been touched/changed/corrupted? please answer me this 'truly'.

* Secondly: Brother, no one of us ever claimed in this thread ever that all hadiths are true. Rather, I have said in the previous posts over and over that The Prophet sawas and his Ahlul Bayt a.s gave us a way by which we may know whether the hadith is true or not, if the hadith opposes or contradicts the Qur'an then it's wrong, if it goes with the Qur'an then it is true. So no one ever claimed that all the hadiths are true. You are the one who said that we did claim that and you asked us to swear on our children and chance to paradise etc that all the Ahlul Bayt's hadiths are true, when in fact we never claimed that. And yes there were hadiths narrated from Ahlul Bayt a.s that were corrupted and Imam Ahmed a.s refuted them, like the following:

Someone asked the Imam a.s:
"What [kind of] woman's consultation/opinion/advice that a man should go against? Because when there is a discussion taking place between men, and then a woman speaks and gives her opinion, the men would say: (Consult them/ask for their opinion, then go against it) ([this is referring to a Hadith mentioned on the authority of Ahlul Bayt a.s]), and that would create confusion in the heart [of the woman] and [it would] break it, because men would argue with us by [saying that it is a Hadith from] Ahlul Bayt (a.s)!"

So the Imam a.s answered her and said:
(It is foolish to tell [someone] to ask for the opinion/consultation/advice of a person so that they go against it!, rather, that would be lack of manners/impoliteness! Not everything that has been narrated on the authority of Ahlul Bayt (a,s) is correct, because there are people who have done a mistake in copying what they (a.s) said, and there are others who intentionally lied about them ([meaning said that they (a.s) said something that they never said]) in order to distort their image. So whatever you find to be going against the Qur'an or the manners of Qu'ran then it is certainly not produced from Ahlul Bayt (a.s), rather that would be either an error in copying [their a.s. words], or distortion [of their a.s. words], or lying about them a.s.)

Do you see the underlined sentence? That's what I have been saying to you. This is the scale that Ahlul Bayt a.s. clarified. Compare the hadith to the Qur'an, if it goes against Qur'an then the hadith is fake or distorted, if it doesn't then it is true".

* You said to Abdullah:
This debate has never been about Ahmad Al Hassan
But can you show me one place i have said one word against him? you have no idea who i am or what is in my heart,

Brother, the fact that you are denying the Mahdi makes this debate totally against Ahmed Alhasan a.s, because Ahmed Alhasan a.s. claims to be the Mahdi who is born in the End Times.

* You said:
Of course he would know exactly which hadiths have been corrupted and which haven't

How do you say that if you don't even believe in him? I don't understand what is your stance regarding him? If you deny the Mahdi, then you are denying Ahmed Alhasan.

* You said:
but before he came for the millions and millions of people, they have no way of knowing which are corrupt so my original argument stands.

No there is a way, and that's the scale by which Ahlul Bayt a.s clarified for them. The one mentioned above. Had they followed Ahlul Bayt a.s. sincerely they would have known which are corrupt and which are not.

More replies to your previous questions coming in a bit inshaAllah.

Salam sis,

You and Abdullah misunderstood what i meant by this
"would you swear your life and your children's lives and your chance of paradise and your children's chance of paradise and you and your children will burn in hell forever if you are wrong...that all the hadiths of the ahulbayt have never been touched/changed/corrupted? please answer me this 'truly'.

May Allah curse me if i was actually asking you to do this, i wasn't, i was asking would you? are you certain enough in them to do that, not please will you do it now, hypothetically. what i was trying to prove was that you wouldn't swear on all those things and i knew you wouldn't, because of your doubts about the hadiths, because you cant know. but if i asked you and Abdullah the same Question regarding the Quran we all would put our heads on the guillotine ready to swear the Qur'an is the truth wouldn't we? my only objective was to prove that.

Do you remember i said way back in the beginning i have no problem in sahfia al sajjadyia and books like this, to me its like a revealed book, i love it with all my heart, after the Qur'an my favorite book on earth. But I have studied hadiths for many years now and its only recently (last year or so) that i came to realize the damage they have done. i know rasulAllahs words are there, i know ahulbayts words are there, my problem is with corruption.

Please don't confuse me being wary of hadiths as a disbelief in the Ahulbayt. as i have said numerous times its shaytaan etc corrupting their words that i have a problem with, and as you pointed out above from Ahmah Al hassan i'm 100% correct in my thinking, as hes already told you they have been corrupted subhanAllah. How am i wrong in that then?

And so i came to think looking at the Muslim world, the bad effects of hadiths out-weighs the good, for example the sunni shia divide and all our brothers and sisters that have died in vain because of them, so the only solution FOR THE UMMAH was for them to stop following hadiths, the layperson cant be trusted to be able to decipher the nuts hadiths from the true ones. i hope you see where im coming from with all this.

i know its an oxymoron, but of course i know the Mahdi is real, i feel his time is now, my only Question was why no mention in Quran, by asking this Question im searching to find a worthy answer to such a HUGE question and as of yet none has been provided. Just by asking the question you have taken the opinion i don't believe in him which is not true, im asking the question to get a genuine answer.

Again don't confuse my problem with hadiths with a problem with the ahulbayt. if there is really a member of the house of Muhammad saws among us you think i wont be the FIRST of those to follow him???
Last edited by SlaveOfAllah on Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Salam aleykoum

SlaveOfAllah wrote:Again even if you refer back to hadiths of the ahulbayt, how do you know if they are true? you don't for sure. You are just best guessing. Because if all of the ahulbayt have been murdered, then Satan was behind all of that, do you think satan is going to leave their words untouched? absolutely not, they are the first words he will go after, because as i said before, above anything, he doesn't want us to have that guidance. The minute they die a.s all it takes is an evil king or ruler to change their words in the books to whatever they see fit and then no one that follows them down the generations can ever know the truth of the corruption. Thats a fact! because this very thing has happened numerous times in history, even Abdullah has highlighted instances of this in his films.

This in fact answers everything, when you ask why did Allah SWT not say this, or how do we know this is from Ahlul Bayt (as) or not... Allah SWT knows very well why and how He SWT says the things, and the best creatures such as a Prophet or a successor, they are so wise they know very well the consequences of their sayings. What I mean is Allah SWT is the best of planners, His Khalifs are as well better to plot/plan than shaytan the accursed. What I have to admit is that due to the self the truth seems not clear cut, due to the self only, rely to Allah SWT and have patience Insha'Allah SWT. Peace.
aslaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakathhu... May Allaah bless you all...:) thankyou sister , i am touched by your effort and attention, was kind of you to share all the information, and hope that it will enlighten others to any truth they have also been seeking...may Allaah reward you..firstly a few things just would like to add, that am not a sunni, shai, salaafi..nooo disrespect to anyone, just my belief we have been given a common title, muslim is more then ample to describe the umberalla we are all under irrelvant of differences, we shouldnt further need to gap ourselves through giving further names/titles and falling into further miniature its somthing that is not from Allaah, He desires unification in truth, ....I'm friends from all backgrounds, because it helps me from becoming stagnant in my understandings..truth is truth..thats what matters,rather then the attitude of don't follow that truth because it belongs to that don't agree with any of that is going against the truth of Allaah.... being a truth seeker, i wont overwhelm myself with so much from hadiths, as i believe that clouds mind as ive observed people...and no matter what proof one gives from the Quran it seems that hadiths carry more weight unfortunately, and this is a fact, hence why there are sects..each following a biased form of truth without meditating, and others carry a prejudiced against a possible truth, so difficult is trying to keep balance in this world where so much polarization exists.. so try to keep away from things like that.. ...i dont use the hadiths unless there is an alignment of in the furqan, will keep away from whats not clear..because there are so many versions, there are many discrepancies, its like trying to weed out of what part is truth to what part may be intentionally misinformation, humans we have flaws, so now the Quran is what it says it is,the furqan of Allaah.... but im not anti anthing that speaks with align of the Quran...but i dont go searching for truth in the hadiths,just so when truth is shown i can see it first hand..its manifestations are what we must seek...and i don't mean seek just in going after it...but be active in seeking of signs of HIs truth...

i do believe that the Yamani does hold a very unique character of what little i read of him or what he has shared..and it speaks of a man of God, hence why im questioning
to see proof...and one can say He is the proof..for that i shall further wait for Allaah to slowly open up and reveal, my conflict is one side, its not mentioned in the Quran, but man hadiths about the coming of the mahdi, the prayers that sis you mentioned, that Allaah hasn't mentioned as in he hasnt..but his mentioned the prayers over and over we know the importance of them....and i have mediated on this and asked Allaahs guidance in why that is.. and what came to mind is that Allaah doesnt details where its a universal practice and is aware that each will have there own long as the main needs are met..which is the purifications, the mentining of standing, rakoo, sajood..and of course the ayats of the Quran to be recited in the prayers..the intention is focused on the main parts..the rest Allaah leaves, we are not meant to have arugments over who sits how...and who puts his hands up and who folds...this is not Allaahs ways...its a mercy from Allaah and He knew that people were reading salaah and it will continue to be practices through generations...there is a beautiful wisdom in its simplicity of leaving it out..but us the people..we fight over it...orthodox christains, buddists, jews, muslims....are prayer are very similar...Allaah doesnt wish to devide us....we do that very long as the main concept of prayer is there and it is to Allaah we pray....such things if we reflect would bring soooo much unity within the muslim community and the the understanding of the ayats of Allaah about focusing on the similarties , so we each can co'exist.. what else you have sha Allaah i will for sure read it several times and i will leave any other questions etc..and i hope you dont mind or anyone...its good to share and interact with a goodly manner to see where we all can take the truth in sha Allaah....its not about yours and mine...its about the truth of Allaah...and again thankyou sis and the brothers who have contributed...much appreciated..:)
and one rather important thing...i do question my LOrd, and converse with HIm, because that is the Only human way i know...its not done out of arrogance, but rather to be further i would question the prophets, indeed i would, as did the people of ansar...and even the Yamani...that courage should not be seen as disrespect, if make everyone so unapproachable then how does friendship begin??? every soul can sense the boundaries..a doubt cannot be cleared without asking for guidance, that somtimes while a thought one is having yet just with itself, Allaah with HIs Mercy replies with an instant without it yet even turning into a direct question towards HIm,.......Allaah shows Himself, He is not not approachable to any of His servants who seek HIm ...and we need to get back in having such relationship with HIm, and when Allaah speaks of His servants in the Quran about those who of knowledge who will say we accept everything the seen and the unseen, that does not mean they follow any mans projection of what he may say about Allaah...rather its the ' knowing' of its source is the ONe Suprmeme LOrd of the Worlds, its has nothing in all honesty to do with the person..He is a pure means to channel that truth, if again we looked at this from a very objective view...each person who has accepted others as the we know many have come and gone..and many still are showing up, and each accept their own mahdis in thier own sect.and each believe they are what is the litmus test in knowing the truth is from Allaah??? ..i have no doubt whatever Allaah has in plan will come, when..that is His domain..that does not make me a rejector..infact it makes me a believer because i cling on to HIm to show me proof of what i should accept...that truth i cannot reject..
Salam brother spiritualhumility

You're most welcome and please don't thank me for anything that's the least we could do to give victory to the truth of Ahul Bayt a.s and I'm really shortcoming in doing it so don't thank me at all. And for sure brother I do respect the fact that you're asking questions, for through that inshaAllah you will come to know the truth. I respect your trust in Allah swt so I strongly encourage you to ask God about the truthfulness of Imam Ahmed a.s. in everything he claims, and even Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. has said that asking Allah swt about the unseen is the shortest way to believe in one of the matters of the unseen, like that of the Madhi's. And that's why he a.s. has been asking the people to ask Allah swt about him. And if Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s wasn't truthful he wouldn't be asking people for years and years since his call started to ask Allah swt about whether Ahmed Alhasan is truthful in his claims or not. He (a.s) said: "Ask Allah SWT about me by the Quran and by the visions. It was narrated that the Messenger of Allah pbuhap said, “Whoever sees me in his sleep has verily seen me, as Satan does not take my form neither during sleep nor while awake, and does not take the form of any of my successors until the Day of Judgment." That's why Prophet Muhammad sawas stressed so much importance on visions and there are a lot of narrations from Sunni and Shia sources stressing on the importance of visions and especially in the End Times, and for sure visions is one way of Allah's testimony to Imam Ahmed a.s. And subhanAllah people from all over the world have seen visions about the truthfulness of the Yamani a.s. Allah has testified about the truthfulness of the Yamanni a.s to those people who are separated from one another across the world and could not possibly plot with one another to lie, that Ahmad Al-Hassan is the Truth and that he is a Caliph (Successor) from the Successors of Allah,yet the deniers and stubborn ones still say that visions are not a proof and they arrogantly say that visions are not a way of Allah's testimony to us! Visions have been mentioned so many times in Qur'an and this emphasizes their importance. Also more importantly in Quran Allah swt praised those who believed in the visions. And since you'd rather have proofs from Qur'an than from Hadiths, then here are some proofs from Qur'an about the fact that visions are a proof and are a way of Allah's testimony to us.

Visions were mentioned in many verses in the Holy Qur'an, I shall mention few here:
{And [subsequently] the king said, "Indeed, I have seen in a vision seven fat cows being eaten by seven [that were] lean, and seven green spikes [of grain] and others [that were] dry. O eminent ones, explain to me my vision, if you should interpret visions."} [12:43]

{[He said], "Joseph, O truthful one, explain to us about seven fat cows eaten by seven [that were] lean, and seven green spikes [of grain] and others [that were] dry - that I may return to the people; perhaps they will know [about you]."} [12:46]

{When his son was old enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I have had a vision that I must sacrifice you. What do you think of this?" He replied, "Father, fulfill whatever you are commanded to do and you will find me patient, by the will of God".}[37:102]

{And there entered the prison with him two young men. One of them said, "Indeed, I have seen myself in a vision pressing wine." The other said, "Indeed, I have seen myself carrying upon my head [some] bread, from which the birds were eating. Inform us of its interpretation; indeed, we see you to be of those who do good."} [12:36]

{We told you that your Lord has encompassed all mankind. We made the vision which We showed you and the accursed tree, mentioned in the Quran, as a trial for the human being. Even though We warn them, it only increases their rebellion.} [17:60]

Allah swt praises the Prophets and the Righteous ones because they believed in the vision:
{We called to him, "O Abraham * You have believed the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.} [37:104-105]

{And We revealed to Moses' mother, saying:"Suckle him; but when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear and do not grieve. Indeed, We will return him to you and will make him [one] of the messengers."} [28:7]

{And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, and (into whose womb) We breathed from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.} [66:12]

{Joseph, O man of truth} [12:46]

And Allah swt rebuked the ones who belied visions and called them false/confused dreams:
{They said: Confused dreams, and we do not know the interpretation of dreams.} [12:44]

And Allah swt testified to the believer and He swt presented Himself as a witness against those who belied the messages of the messengers, He swt did that through the best way of Allah's testimony, which is visions:
{And We have sent you to the people as a messenger, and Allah is sufficient as witness} [4:79].

{But Allah testifies to that which He has revealed to you. He has sent it down with His knowledge, and the Angels testify [as well]. And Allah is sufficient as witness} [4:166]

{And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My messenger, they said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).} [5:111]

{Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. } [6:19]

{And those who have disbelieved say, "You are not a messenger." Say, [O Muhammad], "Sufficient is Allah as Witness between me and you} [13:43]

{Or do they say, "He has invented it?" Say, "If I have invented it, you will not possess for me [the power of protection] from Allah at all. He is most knowing of that in which you are involved. Sufficient is He as Witness between me and you, and He is the Forgiving the Merciful."} [46:8]

{Say, "Sufficient is Allah as Witness between me and you. Indeed he is ever, concerning His servants, Acquainted and Seeing."} [17:96]

Also He (swt) called the vision "the best of stories"
{We narrate to you the best of stories in what We have revealed to you of this Qur'an although you were, before it, among the unaware. * When Joseph said to his father, "O my father, indeed I have seen in a vision eleven stars and the sun and the moon; I saw them prostrating to me."} [12:3-4]

Contemplate over the following verses to know who are the deniers of visions:
{[The time of] their account has approached for the people, while they are in heedlessness turning away. * No mention comes to them anew from their Lord except that they listen to it while they are at play * With their hearts distracted. And those who do wrong conceal their private conversation, [saying], "Is this [Prophet] except a human being like you? So would you approach magic while you are aware [of it]?" * He said, "My Lord knows whatever is said throughout the heaven and earth, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing." * They have said, This is only confused dreams. He is only a poet. So let him bring us a sign just as the previous [messengers] were sent [with miracles].} [21:1-5]

So in Qur'an Allah swt narrates to us many visions and all of them are truthful, some belong to Prophets, some to Pharaohs, etc etc. And Abraham a.s. believed the vision, Moses' mother believed the vision, the queen of Sheba believed the visions, for by vision she knew that the book of Solomon a.s. is a noble book, and, and, and! And Allah swt calls the vision the best of stories. And the fact that Allah swt praised Abraham a.s for believing the vision is in itself a proof that visions are a proof upon the people {We called to him, "O Abraham * You have believed the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.} [37:104-105]

So brother, since you have respectfully made it a point that you trust Allah swt and depend on Him swt then I hope that you inshaAllah ask God sincerely about the truthfulness of Ahmed Alhasan a.s., and inshaAllah He swt bestows upon you His answer through a truthful vision, or any other way, for He swt is the Most Merciful

Imam Ahmad Alhasan a.s. said:
"Wash the mud off your eyes and ears, so that you can see Allah and hear Allah and know that Allah talks to you even through a rock."

And peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon you
Last edited by Norhan El Kirsh on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
spiritualhumility wrote: my conflict is one side, its not mentioned in the Quran

Salam spiritualhumility,

That's the same question SlaveofAllah was raising. Since you mentioned that you haven't read all the previous posts yet, I will try to direct you towards some of the answers that have been given to him regarding that point specifically. And if those answers are not sufficient to you (as they were not sufficient to him) then I suggest to you and to SlaveofAllah - if you are truly seeking the truth - to write a question to Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s and post it here and inshAllah the Arabic speaking brothers and sisters will translate it and send to him, and hopefully we'll get an answer from him inshAllah.

Point 5: You said:
if Allah meant the prophets family, there is no reason on earth or the heavens that he wouldn't just say it! or is Allah playing games with us? if Allah wants to say or mean something he says it. Its people that try to link certain things in the Quran, to possibly fabricated hadiths, to try to reinforce their beliefs in hadith. This (in my worthless opinion) is a dangerous game.

How could you make such claim brother? How could you decide for Allah swt what kind of way He must use to guide us or to test us? If He swt has willed that the nation of Muhammad sawas be tested by their obedience to Muhammad's family (a.s) then that's what it is! We do not worship God according to how we see fit, we worship Him according to what He wills!

As mentioned above brother (check the footnote below), the verses in Qur'an can not be interpreted by us and they have to be interpreted by only the infallible Ahlul Bayt a.s, so there are verses in the Qur'an which are interpreted to be about the Mahdi a.s., not only from Ahlul Bayt Hadiths but also a lot from authentic Sunni sources as I quoted very few of them in the third post I made in this thread. The Qur'an is a book of guidance, not a compendium of rulings; it gives the generals, and the Messenger (sawas) is the one who explained to us the verses as the Qur'an directed him to: {And We revealed to you the message that you may clarify [LI TUBBAYINA] to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.}[Surat Al-Nahl; Verse 44]. And he sawas, from Sunni and Shia sources, clarifies a lot about the Mahdi and his place in Qur'an and his Ahlul Bayt a.s.

How do you know whether the Hadith is true or not. I have also answered that in the above post, and said:
Point 2: You said:
And Abdullah Hashem himself has clearly demonstrated time and time again that hadiths are not to be trusted. They are the absolute cause of all the problems in islam, they divide the muslims (shia-sunni), they are huge ammunition for the kuffar to atttack our prophet (paedophile for example) and to attack the lost muslims that actually follow them and do crazy stuff because of them. and so do you pick and choose which hadiths you believe in and which you dont, because i dont think you and me have the right or authority to do that do we, and neither does anyone else.

That's exactly why The Prophet sawas and the Ahlul Bayt a.s have given us a way to know whether the Hadiths are true or not. They have clarified many times that in order to know whether the Hadith is wrong or true you have to present it upon the Qur'an, meaning you have to compare it to the Qur'an, if it opposes it or contradicts the Qur'an then the hadith is fake or wrong, and if the hadith goes with the Qur'an then the hadith is true.

You might ask again, so why is Mahdi a.s. not mentioned by name like this "Mahdi is going to come in the end times and he is the savior of mankind", why did God use allegorical verses to mean Al-Mahdi, why didn't He swt just make it clear to everyone?

Right? That's what you have been asking over and over. You're saying that if Mahdi is so important and such a great figure in the end times and such a big deal in our faith than how could Allah not mention him clearly?

That's exactly the point brother; it is because Mahdi a.s. is such an important and great matter, Allah swt did not mention him a compelling mentioning, He swt willed that the test of Muhammad's nation be in regards to Muhammad's sawas Ahlul Bayt a.s., so if the Muslims had followed Muhammad's Ahlul Bayt a.s sincerely they would know the Mahdi a.s. and believe in him. Brother SlaveofAllah, Religion is a test, a great exam which distinguishes elevated spirits from low ones. It therefore speaks of matters that everyone shall see with their eyes in the future in such a way that they remain neither altogether unknown, nor self-evident, because if they were completely self evident then every Muslim would be compelled to confirm them, then where would the test be in that?! Allah opens the door for us but He does not take the will from our hands. So He gave us the rope which we should hold tight to in order to always know the truth and not be misguided, but it's up to us whether to hold to this rope or not. This rope is Ahlul Bayt a.s. Because if a sign appeared completely self-evidently and everyone was compelled to affirm it, then where would the test of the Muslims be? If this is the way Allah swt has willed to test us then this is what it is.

Point 3: You said:
no where in the Quran does Allah command us to follow the prophets family or anyone else after they are dead (peace be upon them)

And you said :
Again the hadiths have brought misguidance, corruption, death and bloodshed, so they cannot be trusted.

Yet when I asked you to tell me who the underlined ones in these verses are:
{It is He Who has revealed unto you the Book wherein are explicit verses—they are the Mother of the Book—and others [which are] allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue that which is allegorical seeking [to cause] dissension and seeking its interpretation. None knows its interpretation except for Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge, they say, We believe therein; All is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really remember} [Holy Qur'an 3:7]
{Rather the Qur'an is clear verses in the hearts of those who were given knowledge. And none reject Our verses except the wrongdoers.} [Holy Quran 29:49]
{...But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known it...} [Holy Qur'an 4:83].

You said that they are the people of knowledge.

By Allah, don't you think that those people of knowledge would also bring misguidance and corruption and bloodshed? What do you mean the people of knowledge? You mean Sheikhs for example? Muslim scholars? Aren't those fallible people? Aren't they subjected to making mistakes regarding the interpretation of the Qur'an? Don't you see how there are million and one interpretations, contradicting each other, of the same verses given by those "people of knowledge"? Don't you see the crazy ridiculous Fatwas those "people of knowledge" give? Don't you see that because many people believe like you that the people of knowledge in those verses are scholars and sheikhs, so they referred to them the allegorical verses of Qur'an and then they interpreted for them by their sick fallible minds which caused bloodshed and misguidance everywhere? Would Allah really command us to refer to those regarding the interpretation of His holy words?

Allah swt commands us in the Qur'an to obey three: Himself, His prophet, and those in authority among us. He swt says: {O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you} . So do you think, "the ones in authority among us" are the rulers or the Sheikhs or the scholars like some Muslims think now? Would Allah swt attach to Himself fallible rulers or fallible scholars? Would He swt make obedience to Him the same as obedience to fallible human beings? What if the one in authority among us does something wrong or commits a sin or gives a wrong Fatwa like the crazy Fatwas we hear nowadays, and then I obey him, what would I tell God on the Day of Judgment? Would I say, "But God, You commanded me to follow whoever is in authority among us!" Would God swt excuse me or forgive me? Of course not. They all contradict each other, which one do I choose?

Therefore brother, just by pure logic, Allah swt commands us in Qur'an to obey those in authority among us, and he attached them to Himself swt and to His messenger sawas, in one sentence. Yet we know that Allah swt wouldn't command us to obey fallible human beings nor would He make obedience to fallible humans the same as obedience to Him and His Messenger. But on the other hand, Muhammad sawas attached his Ahlul Bayt a.s to the Qur'an, and he commanded us to follow them both. You do the math.
Salam SlaveofAllah

When I asked you if you believe whether Prophet Muhammad sawas left a will before he died or not you said:

Did he saws leave a will most definitely i think

You must be sure that he left a will brother. Because he sawas is the greatest prophet and he would never go against the command of Qur'an. And in Qur'an, Allah swt commands every believer to write a will when death approaches him. He (swt) says:
{It has been enjoined upon you, when death approaches any of you, if he leave any good that he leaves a will to parents and next of kin, according to reasonable usage; this is due from the Allah-fearing.} [Holy Qur'an 2:180]

And {O you who have believed, let there be witnesses among you when death approaches one of you at the time of the will - [that of] two just men from among you or two others from outside if you are traveling through the land and the disaster of death should strike you. Detain them after the prayer and let them both swear by Allah if you doubt [their testimony, saying], "We will not exchange our oath for a price, even if he should be a near relative, and we will not withhold the testimony of Allah. Indeed, we would then be of the sinful."}

Please note that in those two verses Allah swt connects writing the will to "when death approaches", meaning the will is obligatory at the time of death. Can you find any other will that Prophet Muhammad sawas wrote on the night of his death except for that holy will which Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. pointed out from the books of the Shia? And even though this holy will was present in their books for more than a thousand years, no one paid attention to it because Allah swt willed that only Ahmed Alhasan a.s. be the one who comes with it as mentioned in the narrations of them a.s. And the fact that Ahmed Alhasan a.s is the only one who has EVER claimed to be Ahmed who is mentioned in the will, makes his truthfulness as bright as it could ever be!

If anyone denies that Prophet Muhammad sawas left a will then they would be saying that he sawas abandoned one of the commands of Allah swt, and far is he sawas from that.

Here is the will of Prophet Muhammad sawas which he left on the night of his death, and whoever denies it should bring forth the will which the prophet sawas wrote on the night of his death, otherwise he would be accusing the prophet sawas of going against Qur'an.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh & his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb (pbuh) during the night of his death:
“‘O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper’, and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said: ‘O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdis. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada, The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If death approaches you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir. Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest). Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Musa Al Kadhim (The Patient). Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda. Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy). Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Safeguarded of the Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdis after them. Then when death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father’s: Abdullah (Servant of God), Ahmed, and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer’.”
— Sheikh Al-Toosi, Al-Ghayba p.150.
— Sheikh Hor Al-Amili, Ithbat Al-Hodat Vol. 1 p.549.
— Sheikh Hor Al-Amili, Al-Iqath Min Al-Haj’a p.393-3.
— Sheikh Hassan bin Soulayman Al Hilli, Mokhtasar Al Bassair p.159.
— Al-Allama Al-Majlisii, Bihar Al-Anwar Vol. 53 p.147.
— Al-Allama Al-Majlisii, Bihar Al-Anwar Vol. 36 p.260.
— Sheikh Abd Allah Al-Bahrani, Al’awalim Vol. 3 p.236.
— Al-Sayyed Hashim Al-Bahrani, Ghayat Al-Maram Vol. 1 p.370.
— Al-Sayyed Hashim Al-Bahrani, Al-Insaf p.222.
— Al-Fayth Al-Kachani, Nawadir Al-Akhbar p.294-9.
— Sheikh Mirza Annouri, Annajm Al-Thaqib Vol. 2 p.71.
— Al-Sayyed Muhammad Muhammad Sadiq Al-Sadir , Tarikh Ma Ba’d Al-Thohoor p.641-11.
— Sheikh Al Mayanji, Makatib Arrassoul Vol. 2 p.96.
— Sheikh Al-Korani, Mokhtasar Mo’jam Ahadith Al-Imam Al-Mahdi p.301-13.
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