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#61964
Norhan El Kirsh wrote:
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
Salam

I think the questioner was asking why, if the mahdi is true, did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran? Gog And magog are mentioned but not the mahdi? not some obscure reference claimed by a (possibly fabricated) hadith, clearly mention this if it is true and so important?

Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?


Walaikum assalam waRahmtullah waBarakatuh,
O Allah send Your prayers upon Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad the Imams and the Mahdis

Like you said:
"Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?"


So let me ask you this, how about prayer? Isn't prayer one of the five pillars of Islam? Why would Allah (swt) not mention to us in the Qur'an how to pray? As you said, Allah mentions in Qur'an things much smaller than this! Much smaller than one of the pillars of Islam! So if Allah mentions things much smaller in Qur'an, then why did Allah (swt) not tell us in detail how to pray since prayer is very important and one of the pillars of Islam?! Why did Allah swt leave us to figure out how to pray from Hadiths? Which resulted in having different ways to pray within the same sect of Islam (Sunni Islam for example).

Allah wants us to follow two things after the Prophet's (sawas) death; the Qur'an AND the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet (refer to the third post I made in this thread: the hadith of the two weighty things), if Qur'an alone was enough, then the Prophet sawas would have just said follow the Qur'an after my death! But no, he sawas commanded us to hold tight to the Qur'an and his Ahlul Bayt, and he repeated his Ahlul Bayt three times, and that is because we can not understand the Allegorical verses in the Qur'an except if we seek the interpretation of the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge, according to Allah's swt words Himself! (refer to the third post I made in this thread to get the verses where Allah swt mentions that). If you do not want to take the Hadiths from the ones whom Allah swt and His prophet sawas commanded us to take Hadiths from (the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet), then look at the Hadiths mentioned in the Sunni books, some of which I mentioned above, and many more are there for you to find easily if you do some research.

So just like Allah swt willed that we do not know how to pray (which, I repeat, is one of the pillars of Islam) except from Hadiths, He also swt willed that we do not know about the Mahdi (as well as where he is mentioned in the Qur'an) except from Hadiths.


Salam

Prayer is mentioned clearly in the Quran and it tells you how to do it, bow and prostrate and when to do it.

You see you need to bring one hadith or another every time the mahdi is mentioned. And Abdullah Hashem himself has clearly demonstrated time and time again that hadiths are not to be trusted. They are the absolute cause of all the problems in islam, they divide the muslims (shia-sunni), they are huge ammunition for the kuffar to atttack our prophet (paedophile for example) and to attack the lost muslims that actually follow them and do crazy stuff because of them.

and so do you pick and choose which hadiths you believe in and which you dont, because i dont think you and me have the right or authority to do that do we, and neither does anyone else.

NO MUSLIM 'has' to believe in hadiths, the Quran is the only thing you must believe in, no where in the Quran does Allah command us to follow the prophets family or anyone else after they are dead (peace be upon them), did he forget that? of course not, if we were meant to Allah would have put it in the Quran, the ONLY thing in islam impossible to be corrupted. And if its not the Quran its possibly corrupted (satan will make sure of that) even the Ahul bait's words, in fact more than anything the ahul baits words, because of course shaytan does not want us having that guidance.

Also there is a clear hadith from rasullAllah where he 'commands' not write anything other than the Quran from him, so do you disbelieve that hadith? if so why?

The only solution for the world and the muslims is the Quran, nothing else, until the mahdi is proved real and he emerges with proof that he is from Allah, then i will be the first to stand with him inshAllah. But to me it is very strange that Allah forgot to mention such a huge person/event and mentioned so many other smaller things when Allah didn't leave anything out of the Quran that we needed to know, as it is fully detailed for our salvation.

You said: "Allah wants us to follow two things after the Prophet's (sawas) death; the Qur'an AND the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet"........No he doesnt! thats just your belief, Allah wrote/revealed the Quran HIMSELF, they are his 'actual' words, so please show me where in his words he commanded us to do this? Thats just from another possibly corrupted hadith. Please tell me, Is Allah going to manufacture these huge events of revealing the Quran and then just leave stuff out that we needed to know? how does that make any sense to you?

Again the hadiths have brought misguidance, corruption, death and bloodshed, so they cannot be trusted.

Peace.
#61965
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
You said: "Allah wants us to follow two things after the Prophet's (sawas) death; the Qur'an AND the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet"........No he doesnt! thats just your belief, Allah wrote/revealed the Quran HIMSELF, they are his 'actual' words, so please show me where in his words he commanded us to do this? Thats just from another possibly corrupted hadith. Please tell me, Is Allah going to manufacture these huge events of revealing the Quran and then just leave stuff out that we needed to know? how does that make any sense to you?

Again the hadiths have brought misguidance, corruption, death and bloodshed, so they cannot be trusted.

Peace.


In the Holy Qur'an: {It is He Who has revealed unto you the Book wherein are explicit verses—they are the Mother of the Book—and others [which are] allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue that which is allegorical seeking [to cause] dissension and seeking its interpretation. None knows its interpretation except for Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge, they say, We believe therein; All is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really remember} [Holy Qur'an 3:7]

Also He (swt) says: {Rather the Qur'an is clear verses in the hearts of those who were given knowledge. And none reject Our verses except the wrongdoers.} [Holy Quran 29:49]

Also He (swt) says: {...But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known it...} [Holy Qur'an 4:83].

Can you please tell me who do you believe are the ones underlined in the above verses? And please provide proof(s) for your answer. Thanks in advance.
#61968
Norhan El Kirsh wrote:
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
You said: "Allah wants us to follow two things after the Prophet's (sawas) death; the Qur'an AND the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet"........No he doesnt! thats just your belief, Allah wrote/revealed the Quran HIMSELF, they are his 'actual' words, so please show me where in his words he commanded us to do this? Thats just from another possibly corrupted hadith. Please tell me, Is Allah going to manufacture these huge events of revealing the Quran and then just leave stuff out that we needed to know? how does that make any sense to you?

Again the hadiths have brought misguidance, corruption, death and bloodshed, so they cannot be trusted.

Peace.


In the Holy Qur'an: {It is He Who has revealed unto you the Book wherein are explicit verses—they are the Mother of the Book—and others [which are] allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue that which is allegorical seeking [to cause] dissension and seeking its interpretation. None knows its interpretation except for Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge, they say, We believe therein; All is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really remember} [Holy Qur'an 3:7]

Also He (swt) says: {Rather the Qur'an is clear verses in the hearts of those who were given knowledge. And none reject Our verses except the wrongdoers.} [Holy Quran 29:49]

Also He (swt) says: {...But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known it...} [Holy Qur'an 4:83].

Can you please tell me who do you believe are the ones underlined in the above verses? And please provide proof(s) for your answer. Thanks in advance.


Salam sis

I notice you answer questions with other questions rather than answering the actual points i raise, but no worries i'll answer yours directly inshAllah

I dont need proof for the explanation of the above verses, as they are 100% self explanatory. People of knowledge are people of knowledge, any knowledgeable person. if Allah had meant the ahul bait here, why didn't he say "None knows its interpretation except for Allah and The messengers family those who are firmly grounded in knowledge

if Allah meant the prophets family, there is no reason on earth or the heavens that he wouldn't just say it! or is Allah playing games with us? if Allah wants to say or mean something he says it. Its people that try to link certain things in the Quran, to possibly fabricated hadiths, to try to reinforce their beliefs in hadith. This (in my worthless opinion) is a dangerous game.

As i said, you have no idea which are the ahul baits words and which are not, which are the prophets words and which are not, any of them can be corrupted. doesn't matter whether from the sunni side or shia (im neither by the way, just Muslim inshAllah, no sect for me, Allah calls us Muslims in the Quran, that's good enough for me). The sunni books of hadith have been protected more rigorously than the shia side IMO and even they have been proven to have many contradictions and errors etc within them.

The hadiths remind me of the bible, its been corrupted beyond all recognition and now how many people have gone astray because of it, why are we making the same mistake as the jews and the christians (myself an ex christian) when we have the greatest thing ever sent to the earth the Glorious Quran?

002.170 When it is said to them: "Follow what God hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?

Its my opinion that Muslims that are born Muslim (into a Muslim family i mean) and brought up through Muslim families will choose the sect of islam from their family most of the time, just like in Christendom, and they forget or don't realize just what they have in the Qur'an, they dont give it the status it deserves. Nothing is equal to it, nothing can ever replace it or change it, it will be perfect forever. We dont need anything other than it. All the things that hadith followers say is missing from the Qur'an, like the step by step directions for the prayer and zakat amount, can all be answered.

I dont see any problem in the books that help a person get closer to Allah like sahifa Al sajjadyia for example, this is just helping the relationship between the slave and Allah, there is little danger from these books, its when the hadith with prophecy and commandments get corrupted by evil men, this leads vast numbers of people astray, and pushes vast numbers of would be converts away from accepting Islam.

007.185 Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADITH after this (Qur'an) will they then believe?

is the above ayat not clearly warning away from following any other hadith than the Qur'an? i guess it is, so we need to be very careful here.

I dont want to hurt your feelings by saying all this, and Allah forgive me if im wrong, my intention is only to try to find the correct path inshAllah.

Salam
#61972
Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

Based on a parallel (Mutawatir) tradition upon whose authenticity all Muslims agree, the Messenger of Allah (S) informed his followers in several occasions that he would leave them two precious/weighty things and that if Muslims adhere to both of them, they will never go astray after him. They are the Book of Allah (Qur’an) and the Members of the House of the Prophet (Ahlul-Bayt), peace be upon them all.

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim as well as many other sources that:

Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (S) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: "O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance...The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."

Sunni Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v 4, p1873, Tradition #36.

• And many others such as Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad (see below).

For the English version of Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, v4, p1286, Tradition #5920

Here is the Arabic text of the above tradition in Sahih Muslim:

قام رسول الله يوما فينا خطيبا بماء يدعى خما بين مكة والمدينة ، فحمد الله وأثنى عليه ، ووعظ وذكر ، ثم قال: أما بعد ، ألا أيها الناس ، فإنما أنا بشر ، يوشك أن يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب ، وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين ، أولهما: كتاب الله ، فيه الهدى والنور ، فخذوا بكتاب الله ، واستمسكوا به ، فحث على كتاب الله ورغب فيه ، ثم قال: وأهل بيتي ، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي ، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي

As we can see in the above tradition in Sahih Muslim, not only Ahlul-Bayt has been put beside the Qur’an, but also it has been mentioned three times by the Prophet (S).

Despite the fact that the author of Sahih Muslim and many other Sunni traditionists have recorded the above tradition in their authentic books, it is regrettable that the majority of Sunnis are unaware of its existence at the best, or deny it at the worst. Their counter argument is that the most reliable tradition in this regard is the one recorded by al-Hakim in his al-Mustadrak, on the authority of Abu Huraira, attributing to the Messenger of Allah saying: "I leave amongst you two things that if you follow or act upon, you will not go astray after me: The Book of God and my Sunnah (traditions)."

There is no doubt that ALL Muslims are required to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (S). However, the question remains that which Sunnah is genuine and which one is invented later and was falsely attributed to the Prophet.

On tracing the source of this report of Abu Huraira which states "Qur’an and Sunnah,”we found out that it has NOT been recorded in any of the six authentic Sunni collections of the traditions (Sihah Sittah). Not only that, but also al-Bukhari, al-Nisa’i, and al-Dhahabi and many others rated this report (Qur’an and Sunnah) as weak because of its weak Isnad. It should be noted that although the book of al-Hakim is an important Sunni collection of traditions, yet it is ranked inferior to the six major Sunni books. This is while Sahih Muslim is in the second rank among the six Sunni collections of traditions.

al-Tirmidhi reported that the "Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”version of the tradition is traced to 30+ companions. Ibn Hajar al-Haythami reported that he knows of 20+ companions witnessed that also. This is while the "Qur’an and Sunnah”version reported by al-Hakim has only one source! Thus we must conclude that the "Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”version is much more reliable. Moreover al-Hakim has also mentioned the "Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”version in his book (al-Mustadrak) through several chain of authorities and confirmed that the "Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”version of the tradition is authentic based on the criteria of al-Bukhari and Muslim.

Moreover, the word "Sunnah”by itself does not serve the purpose of knowledge. All Muslims irrespective to their persuasions claim that they follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (S). The differences among Muslims come from the transmitted Prophetic traditions through different avenues. Such traditions serve as explanatory means of the Holy Qur’an upon whose authenticity all Muslims agree.

Thus divergence in the transmitted traditions, which in turn has led to differing interpretation of Qur’an and the prophetic Sunnah, has created numerous versions of Sunnah. All Muslims, as a result, splintered into different schools, groups, offshoots, which is believed to add up to seventy three groups.

All of them are obeying their own version of Sunnah which they claim to be the true one. Which of these groups follow the true Sunnah of the Prophet? Which one (out of 73 groups) will be the prosperous one, and will survive? Other than the tradition of Sahih Muslim mentioned above, the following authentic traditions provide a unique detailed answer for this question:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

1. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.

2. al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).

3. Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432

4. Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419

5. Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990

6. al-Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 21,30

7. al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230

8. al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137

9. Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti’sam bi Habl Allah, v1, p44.

10. Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p113, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Qur’an (four traditions)

11. al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p194, Pub. by Dar Isadder, Lebanon.

12. al-Jami’ al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, v1, p353, and also in v2

13. Majma’ al-Zawa’id, al-Haythami, v9, p163

14. al-Fateh al-Kabir, al-Binhani, v1, p451

15. Usdul Ghabah fi Ma’rifat al-Sahaba, Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12

16. Jami’ al-Usul, Ibn al-Athir, v1, p187

17. History of Ibn Asakir, v5, p436

18. al-Taj al-Jami’ Lil Usul, v3, p308

19. al-Durr al-Manthoor, al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v2, p60

20. Yanabi al-Mawaddah, al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 38,183

21. Abaqat al-Anwar, v1, p16

... and many more ...

إني تارك فيكم ما إن تمسكتم بهما لن تضلو بعدي أبدا:كتاب الله وعترتي أهل بيتي وهما لن يفترقا حتى يردا علي الحوض

Of course, any Muslim should follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (S), and as such, we, the Followers of Ahlul-Bayt, submit to the genuine (practice) Sunnah of the Holy Prophet of Islam (S) and consider it to be the only path of salvation. But the above tradition gives evidence to the fact that any so-called Sunnah (practice) which contradicts Ahlul-Bayt is NOT a genuine Sunnah and has been innovated later on by some pay-rolled individuals in support the tyrants.

That’s why the Prophet had emphasized so much on Ahlul-Bayt in loving them and following them since they carry his genuine Sunnah. And this is the basis of the Shi’a School of Thought (the School of Ahlul-Bayt). The Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet who are raised in his house know more than anybody else about the Sunnah of the Prophet and what it entails, for as the proverb goes: "The people of Mecca know its paths better than anyone else."

For the sake of argument, if we accept that the two versions of the tradition ("Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”vs. "Qur’an and Sunnah") are both authentic, then one must submit to the interpretation that the word "my Sunnah”given by al-Hakim means the Sunnah which is derived through Ahlul- Bayt and not any other source, as it is evident from the Ahlul-Bayt version given by both Mustadrak al-Hakim and Sahih Muslim. Now let us take a look at the following tradition:

Narrated Umm Salama:

The Messenger of Allah said: "‘Ali is with Qur’an, and Qur’an is with ‘Ali. They shall not separate from each other till they both return to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

• al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p124 on the authority of Umm Salama

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2, pp 191,194

• al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani; also in al-Saghir

• Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173

The above tradition gives evidence to the fact that Imam ‘Ali and Qur’an are non-separable. If we accept the "Qur’an and Sunnah”version to be authentic, then one can conclude that the one who carries the Sunnah of Prophet is Imam ‘Ali since he is the one who has been put beside Qur’an.

Interesting to see, al-Hakim has many other traditions about necessity of following Ahlul-Bayt, among which is the following tradition. This tradition is also narrated by many other Sunni scholars and is known as the "Tradition of the Ship”in which the Prophet (S) stated:

"Behold! My Ahlul-Bayt are like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarked in it was SAVED, and whoever turned away from it was PERISHED."

إنَّما مثلُ أهلُ بيتي كَمَثل سَفينَةُ نوح

مَنْ رَكَبها نَجى و مَنْ تَخَلَّفَ عنها هَلكْ.

Sunni references:

1. al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p343, v3, pp 150-151 on the authority of Abu Dharr. al-Hakim said this tradition is authentic (Sahih).

2. Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p786

3. Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under the commentary of verse 42:23, Part 27, p167

4. al-Bazzar, on the authority of Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair with the wording "drowned”instead of "perished".

5. al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p234 under Verse 8:33. Also in section 2, p282. He said this Hadith has been transmitted via numerous authorities.

6. Tarikh al-Khulafaa and Jami’ al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti

7. al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 37,38

8. al-Saghir, by al-Tabarani, v2, p22

9. Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p306

10. al-Kuna wal Asmaa, by al-Dulabi, v1, p76

11. Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 30,370

12. Is’af al-Raghibeen, by al-Saban

The above tradition gives evidence to the fact that those who adopt the school of Ahlul-Bayt and follow them, shall be saved from the punishment of Hell, while those who run away from them shall meet with the fate of the one who tried to save his life by climbing up the mountain, with the only difference that whereas he (Noah’s renegade son) was drowned in water, but these people will be drowned the fire of Hell. The following tradition also confirms it:

The Prophet (S) said about Ahlul-Bayt:

"Do not be ahead of them for you will perish, do not turn away from them for you will perish, and do not try to teach them since they know more than you do!"

لا تتقدموهم فتهلكوا ولا تتخلفوا عنهم فتهلكوا ولا تعلموهم فإنهم أعلم منكم.

Sunni references:

1. al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v2, p60

2. al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230, quoted from al-Tabarani, also in section 2, p342

3. Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v3, p137

4. Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p41, and P335

5. Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v1, p168

6. Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p163

7. Aqabat al-Anwar, v1, p184

8. A’alam al-Wara, pp 132-133

9. Tadhkirat al-Khawas al-Ummah, Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi al-Hanafi, pp 28-33

10. al-Sirah al-Halabiyyah, by Noor al-Din al-Halabi, v3, p273

Here is another one:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "My Ahlul-Bayt are like the Gate of Repentance of the Children of Israel; whoever entered therein was forgiven."

إنما مثل أهل بيتي فيكم مثل باب حطة في بنى إسرائيل من دخله غفر

Sunni References:

• Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p168

• al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani, Tradition #18

• Arba’in, by al-Nabahani, p216

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 230,234

Another fairly similar tradition was recorded by al-Darqunti as well as Ibn Hajar in his al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, Ch. 9, section 2, p193 where the Prophet (S) said: "‘Ali is the Gate of Repentance, whoever entered therein was a believer and whoever went out was an unbeliever."

The above tradition was in connection with verses 2:58 and 7:161 of Qur’an which describe the Gate of Repentance of Bani Israel. Those of companions of Moses who did not enter the Gate of the Repentance were lost in the desert for forty years, while those who did not enter the ark of Noah were drowned. Ibn Hajar concludes that:

"The analogy of the Ark of Noah signifies that those who love and honor the Ahlul-Bayt and derive from their guidance will be rescued from the darkness of opposition, and those who will turn against them will be drowned in the sea of ingratitude and will perish in the desert of insubordination and rebellion."

Sunni reference: al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, p. 91

Have we ever asked ourselves why the Prophet put so much emphasis on Ahlul- Bayt? Was is just because they were members of his family, or was it because they carried his true teachings (Sunnah) and they were the most knowledgeable individuals among his community after him?

Different versions of the Tradition of Two Weighty Things (al-Thaqalain) which prove conclusively that it is compulsory to follow the Qur’an and the Ahlul-Bayt, are not ordinary traditions. They are repeated many times and are related on the authority of more than thirty of the companions of the Holy Prophet (S) through various sources.

The Holy Prophet (S) repeated these words over and over again (and not merely in one isolated instance but on several occasions) publicly to show that it is compulsory to follow and obey the Ahlul-Bayt. He made the announcement during the Farewell Pilgrimage, on the day of Arafat, on the day of Ghadir Khum, on the return from Ta’if, also in Medina from the pulpit, and in his deathbed when the room was packed with his disciples, he said:

"O folk! I am soon going to depart from here, and although I have already told you, I repeat once more that I am leaving with you two things, namely, the Book of Allah and my descendants, that is, my Ahlul-Bayt.”Then he lifted ‘Ali by the hand and said: "Behold! this ‘Ali is with the Qur’an and the Qur’an is with him. These two shall never separate from each other until they come to me at the Pool of Kawthar."

Sunni reference: al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2

Ibn Hajar al-Haythami wrote:

"The Traditions of Adherence has been handed down through a large number of sources and more than twenty of the disciples have related it."

He further wrote:

"Here a doubt arises, and it is that while the Tradition has come down through various sources, some say that the words were spoken during the last pilgrimage, others that they were spoken at Medina when he lay on his deathbed and the room was packed with his disciples, yet another saying that he spoke these words at Ghadir Khum, or in another Hadith, on the return from Ta’if.

But there is NO inconsistency in these, since having regards to the importance and greatness of the Qur’an and the pure Ahlul-Bayt, and with a view of emphasizing the point before the people, the Holy Prophet might have repeated these words on all these occasions so that any one who had not heard them before might hear them now."

Sunni reference: al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230

Concluding the above traditions, the Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt are the only two precious things that the Prophet left for Muslims, and stated that if Muslims follow BOTH of them, they will not go astray after him, and they will be led to Paradise, and that those who forsake Ahlul-Bayt will not survive. The above traditions have been designed by Prophet (S) to answer which "Sunnah”is genuine and which group caries the true "Sunnah”of the Prophet. It is aimed at not leaving Muslims at loss as to which way to go after the departure of the Prophet (S).

On the other hand, if we use the word "Sunnah”alone, it does not give us any specific answer for this question since all the groups among the Muslim nation follow their own version of Sunnah as well as their own interpretation of the Qur’an and Sunnah. Thus the prophetic instructions were clear in urging Muslims to follow the interpretation of Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet transmitted through the channel of Ahlul-Bayt whose sinlessness, purity, and righteousness is confirmed by the Holy Qur’an (the last sentence of verse 33:33).
#61973
unplugged wrote:Salam

SlaveofAllah, you didn't answer Sister Norhans question, which book by Ahmad Al Hasan a.s. have you read?


salam
i don't think that is relevant to the debate at hand and i think is a distraction/deflection away from the important debate here. All i will say is i have been here since the very beginning, i was one of the first to know of all this (along with everyone else that was here then of course).

Also i have asked many questions on actual topic that haven't been answered. Please read back through and feel free to join the debate.
#61974
@dawnoftheage

why are you posting Hadiths? did you read what i wrote before. What does that achieve? the whole debate is why didnt the ONLY BOOK THAT MATTERS, THE QURAN not mention ANY of this???

are you just posting all that to try to cover/hide what i wrote or something and deflect from what i am actually saying?

Most of you are shia on here, yet you bring sunni hadiths? one minute you attack the sahih hadiths for being lies and fabrications, the next you use them to back your argument up, where is your sense of fairness?
#61975
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
unplugged wrote:Salam

SlaveofAllah, you didn't answer Sister Norhans question, which book by Ahmad Al Hasan a.s. have you read?


salam
i don't think that is relevant to the debate at hand and i think is a distraction/deflection away from the important debate here.
...


far from that! how can this be a distraction, when it's the very source of the answer(s) you are seeking, but you don't realize it

as for your initial question:
„if the mahdi is true, why did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran?“

Allah swt said in His book, that not all verses are clear, read 3:7 quoted earlier again and understand what it says: that there are clear and unclear/ambiguous verses in the Quran, how do you know which is which?
and the fact that an important matter such as the matter of Imam Al Mahdi a.s. has not been 'clearly' mentioned in the Quran does not make it false or corrupt.
It is a test for you, me, everyone - so what do you have to do in order to succeed in an exam? - you don't go to your finals at college without studying the books carefully, do you?
#61976
Firstly, If your arguing merely for the sake of arguing then your wasting your time and everybody else`s, i posted in order for you to grasp the fact that the interpretation of the Quran can only be achieved by those vested in knowledge, namely the holy prophet and his progeny which has been proven to you through many authentic and reliable sources that you cannot refute at all. Secondly there are many aspects to jurisprudence that are not detailed in the Quran but are obligatory as part of worship. Who do you think explained all of these practices, of course the answer is the Prophet and his progeny (pbut) Its such a pity that you`ve been here from the beginning and have not grasped any of the abundant knowledge shared.

Peace
#61977
unplugged wrote:
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
unplugged wrote:Salam

SlaveofAllah, you didn't answer Sister Norhans question, which book by Ahmad Al Hasan a.s. have you read?


salam
i don't think that is relevant to the debate at hand and i think is a distraction/deflection away from the important debate here.
...


far from that! how can this be a distraction, when it's the very source of the answer(s) you are seeking, but you don't realize it

as for your initial question:
„if the mahdi is true, why did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran?“

Allah swt said in His book, that not all verses are clear, read 3:7 quoted earlier again and understand what it says: that there are clear and unclear/ambiguous verses in the Quran, how do you know which is which?
and the fact that an important matter such as the matter of Imam Al Mahdi a.s. has not been 'clearly' mentioned in the Quran does not make it false or corrupt.
It is a test for you, me, everyone - so what do you have to do in order to succeed in an exam? - you don't go to your finals at college without studying the books carefully, do you?


wow it amazes me how many people twist ayats in the Quran to further their own arguments, either knowingly which is inexcusable or without knowledge which can easily lead people astray.

The above verse has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about here. That is talking about verses in the Quran 'not' the millions of hadiths floating around. and anyway you have totally misunderstood the ayat, the clear verses are clear for all to understand and the other verses, only Allah himself knows the meaning (which mean no one else) so its easy for a person to know which are the clear verses against which are the not clear verses Allah himself tells you in this very Ayat

In fact this verse backs up even more what im saying, if evil people try to twist the ayats of Quran "But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings" then imagine how bad it is with the hadith? that can be chopped and changed as evil people see fit.

007.185 Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADITH after this (Qur'an) will they then believe?
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